Stand Strong in the Word

#298 "What Was Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh? (2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

Jason Jimenez

Have you experienced constant pain in your life? Paul did, too. He pleaded with God to take it away, but God allowed it to remain. This was to help Paul grow and learn about God’s grace.

Whatever you are facing right now, God wants you to rely more on Him. Let’s explore how we can do this in our own lives.

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Speaker 1:

Have you experienced constant pain in your life? Paul did too. He pleaded with God to take it away, but God allowed it to remain. This was to help Paul grow and learn about God's grace. Whatever you are facing right now, my friends, in your life, god wants you to rely more on Him. So let's explore how we can do this in our own lives. Turn to 2 Corinthians 12 and let's stand strong in the word of God together. Well, hey there, my friends, welcome to Stand Strong in the Word podcast. Jason Hemet is with you, as always. Blessed to be with you, guys, as we study the book of 2 Corinthians.

Speaker 1:

So now we are transitioning in verses 7 through 10 of chapter 12, and the title is a question what was Paul's thorn in the flesh? Have you ever wondered what it was? I've been asked this question for many years as a pastor and a Christian apologist, and I got to tell you and I'll preface it as I do with my audiences Now I do say over the years, my viewpoint has changed slightly. I'm actually writing a Q and A book right now on spiritual warfare, and this is one of the issues that I do address. I'm not going to be highlighting my exact response in my book. It's developing and shaping as I'm writing it, but I will explore this exegetically, obviously, as we do here on the podcast, verse by verse, and give you, based on what we see in the text, what this could mean not in its entirety, because we don't know for certain, but I think there's enough here that we can actually learn about. And one of the things that I want to say before we dive in is this is about spiritual warfare. My friends, if you go back to 2 Corinthians 10, and again you say, oh, that was so long ago. Well, not in the letter, not in the sense of the letter, where Paul was dealing with spiritual warfare, then he's caught up to the third heaven and he has not just a vision but his soul, because we saw based on the text, more than likely when he was being dragged out of the city and stoned to death. That's when he had that experience, that near death experience. And so if you've missed that podcast, I encourage you to check it out.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, if you did miss it and you're jumping into this, it always makes sense to make sure you catch up on the recent one so you can understand where we are contextually, especially when we spend multiple episodes on one chapter trying to give you guys the breadth, the depth right, of the infallibility of scripture, which is a tall task, no doubt, as a fallible, limited human being. But it's just amazing as we explore through scripture. As I was just talking to one pastor recently, I said, you know, when I was hearing you teach and I've explored and studied that passage, matter of fact, on this podcast when we were going through the gospels, because that's the passage he was teaching on was about Thomas, and I said, but it's so amazing because some of the insight he brought that the Holy Spirit had revealed to him I'd never seen. And again, it just adds more layers and more depth, more love for God's word, right, and so that's what we certainly want to do here. So let me just go back and just remind all of us and hopefully you did pause if you missed the previous podcast and you're now back with me.

Speaker 1:

But if you go back and you see, and he says here in verse five, on behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses, though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth, but I refrain from it so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. Then he says in verse seven so to keep me from becoming conceited. So, even though Paul, that was not his goal, that was not his aim, to be all about himself and to be like these super apostles and trying to impress and trying to conform to their methodology of ministry or how they're profiling themselves, or having to feel like he needed to refute every single accusation that was brought against him. But to keep him from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me. And there it is. This is the spiritual warfare I was just alluding to earlier, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Speaker 1:

So notice he says it twice From becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness. This thing was given to him in the flesh a messenger of Satan harass him, to keep him from becoming conceited. Then it says in verse eight three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that I should leave me. But he said to me my grace is sufficient for you, for my powers made perfect in weakness. Powers made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast only the more gladly of my weaknesses so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities, for when I'm weak, then I am strong, then I am strong. You know, my friends, what a powerful testimony of Paul. Very easy to read, it's intriguing. Certainly we're highlighting this thorn of the flesh, but let's not underestimate the contentment that he says for the sake of Christ, and that's something that we've been looking at through the episodes in second Corinthians, particularly after second Corinthians, chapter nine.

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This sake for this, this for the sake of Christ mentality and this is something that I regularly will have conversations with colleague friends of mine is it's not just like hey, who do you work for? What are you working on right now? Where are you going from here? Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's what you're doing. Is it really, for the sake of christ, are you content in what you're doing? Content can look at, can look differently depending on the person. Right, you could be content. It's. It's like yeah, well, I'm content here, like lower level, you know, I'm trying to move up, trying to get more money, trying to get you know larger crowds. That's not being content. Okay, being content.

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Notices with weaknesses, like if this is what God has drawn up for me, this is what God wants me to go through the insults and hardships. I'm good with that, because when I'm weak here, when I'm looking around and I may not have the prestige, I may not have the attention that other people may have. And again, who's to say that that's worth achieving? Who's to say that's worth having? But that's what the flesh does, right, the greed, the jealousy, the envy. But that's what the flesh does, right, the greed, the jealousy, the envy. But when I'm weak, then I'm strong, meaning God is using you. So let's say, for example, I was talking to one of my colleagues recently so you're teaching a few hundred people a month. You want it to be 10,000 a month, says who?

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Why aren't you content with the people that you're ministering to? I would honestly say, when I started as a pastor young pastor in Arizona to now, I miss the familiarity and I want to almost say the simplicity of being with somebody and their families on a regular basis. And it's not all about, like, the worries and concerns and the explosive behavior of promotion and evangelicalism outside the four walls of a local church. Now, we can certainly bring that in, and I'm not disregarding that or dismissing that. My point is that there's something amazing when you're content with the people that you're to shepherd, and oftentimes it can get very hard, and so be very careful. What we ask for, and at the heart of this we have to be saying, lord, I want to be content with what you have provided for me, meaning I am thankful, I am grateful, and if this is where you want me to be, or if I am to decrease in some areas, or if this never happens even though I've strived for this to be, if this is not of your will, lord, I wanna be content, and that's where the peace comes from. This is where we truly get to know Christ, and this is where Paul finds himself. So let's go back to verse seven here, when he's talking about to not become conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations Again what we just talked about in verses one through six being caught up in the third heaven.

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There has been more speculation, though, about this passage right what Paul's referring to than pretty much anything else in the New Testament. Now, I was debating about whether I was going to spend at least one episode or two or three just on this one verse, but I don't want to get so sidetracked to where I lose like the luster, if you will, of what we're trying to accomplish, and so I just put it in verses seven through 10 as a standalone. So we have the near-death experience and now this thorn in the flesh that comes. Now let's first understand what he means here. By the greatness of the revelations.

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Paul reuses a Greek term hyperbole. It means, beyond all comparison, something that is more excellent than you can fathom. This is what he referred to in 2 Corinthians 4, verse 17, where he says for our light, momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So remember, when he was writing, that he had already had this experience. It wasn't like he was caught up in the third heaven as he began to write second Corinthians. No, he already had this experience. So he has a glimpse of it. He got to experience for however long.

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And again, if you go back to the book I mentioned you guys by John Burke, imagine heaven. And again, if you go back to the book I mentioned to you guys by John Burke, imagine Heaven, it's not like time elapsed the way that it does here on earth, physically speaking, in time, space and matter, the context of being in the third heaven, but when he had that experience, that exceeding glory, the splendor of heaven, it's beyond all comparison. You can't even explain it. And that's what he's saying. And again, when you have that understanding, my friends, it puts things in perspective, just like when you've really experienced something like high quality. Nothing's going to compare to it. And sometimes it could spoil the rest, like for me, like if I have like some amazing homemade Sonoran Mexican food and then I go to some cheap restaurant, no offense, but it's run by some white people, I mean it's, I don't matter of fact, I don't even want to do that right, it's not even a good experience. And so that's what Paul's pointing out here. He's pointing out, saying listen, my friends, this experience that I had, it's going to be, it's going to be fulfilled, that I had, it's going to be fulfilled.

Speaker 1:

So, as we're having this discussion right now, guess where Paul is. He's experiencing that exceeding glory, that splendor. Isn't that amazing, despite all that he went through, and we certainly know that he went through a lot. So let's point out one, or let's touch on what this thorn that was given to him one, or let's touch on what this thorn that was given to him in the flesh. Now, the Greek term here is skol lopes, sarx, hoi sarx. It carries anything from physical impairment, emotional turmoil or trauma or mortal flaws. So keep that in mind. So notice, it's encompassing, and Paul oftentimes did this, but this is a different way than what he was expressing, with his infirmities and his afflictions and his trials that he went through in 2 Corinthians, chapter 1, or that we explored in 2 Corinthians, chapter 6, or at the end of 2 Corinthians, chapter 11. So notice, as he went through a lot of hardship, he's caught up in the third heaven to prevent him from being conceited. He's given this thorn in the flesh, this skolops sarx, hoi sarx, and it's encompassing physical impairment, again, some emotional issues, a mortal flaw. And if we see what Paul's saying here as much as we possibly can, it still is very uncertain in the Greek as to what exactly was given to him, because it's all encompassing, which I do tend to believe that whatever was given to him by this messenger of Satan, we'll touch on what that is. It ranged from all of what this encompassing phrase captures, for example.

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I do believe that from this point, when this messenger of Satan came to harass him, that it had to deal with psychological distress and grief. I believe it also was an increase in persecution that he faced, not just from his adversaries physically, but demonically. Again, thorn the term was in reference, I believe, here, to enemies. This is very common. So when we allude to or when we believe that Paul is alluding to or clearly citing from the old Testament, which was the Jewish scriptures in his time, we do the same here.

Speaker 1:

When we look at the term thorn in Numbers 33, verse 55, and Ezekiel 28, verse 24, it's referring to enemies. So this thorn of the flesh came from an enemy, not a physical one, but a messenger of Satan. That's our enemy. That's what Jesus referred him, as I also believe that this also had to do with, probably to some extent, a physical and ailment that contributed to his poor eyesight, which is something that he had mentioned quite frequently in some of his writings. He wasn't, you know, complaining all the time, being a Debbie Downer, he's just stating the facts of some of the issues that he had, some of the severe sickness that he faced, and I also, as I mentioned earlier, believe this is also at a level of demonic attacks that was relentless in trying to cause these type of physical inalienates, this psychological trauma, whatever. Again, all of these things, if you factor them together, trying to drive this home, to cause Paul to not only feel defeated but to quit and obviously die eventually because of the pain and because of the agony.

Speaker 1:

Now there are commentaries that kind of say oh, it could be this, it could be that. I think it's all encompassing. I do believe that when you take the totality of what Paul has experienced, particularly as he's laying out these things in 2 Corinthians I do see, as he gets to this point about the thorn in the flesh, I think things got heightened, meaning his eyesight was already poor prior to this. We know, because he mentions this in the book of Galatians that was written before 2 Corinthians. I just think that this stuff, this thorn in the flesh, heightened everything. He was already being persecuted. I think that just got heightened and he's aware of it. Just like if you and I've been sensitive, saying Lord, something is really off, things have not normally been like this. Just like when you say I'm not normally tired like this, so something's a bit off and so everything that you're trying to do is a lot more difficult to try to accomplish because you're in a funk or there's fatigue right, or the stress in your life, this thorn in the flesh that was allowed by God, just like with Job, to not tempt Paul, but remember to keep him from being conceited.

Speaker 1:

If you go back to chapter one, verses eight and 9, paul used, as I was mentioning earlier, some very strong language to describe his afflictions when he was spreading the gospel. So again, these things were already happening to his life. I just believe at this point, as he's writing in 2 Corinthians 12, they just got worse. He says for we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experience in Asia. So remember, I don't want you guys not to know about this stuff. I think you guys should know about this.

Speaker 1:

He goes on to say for we were so utterly burdened, beyond our strength, that we despaired of life itself. So the outcome, we know, was God advancing the gospel and using Paul to be a vessel, but there were moments in time where he was so utterly exhausted and burdened that he lost all hope. That's what he's saying in verse eight. We tend to overlook that, so when we do have discussions about mental illness and health issues, let us not strip away any of that from what Paul dealt with as a human being. He goes on to say in verse nine indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death, but that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. I love this because and we talked about this if you go all the way back to chapter one, I believe here Paul was saying, even if I were to die, which he did because then he talks about in 2 Corinthians 12. So this is what's so important when we're teaching contextually, verse by verse, looking at hermeneutically, understanding the background, the history, the language, the linguistics, trying to understand the intent of what he's saying here, the usage of the terminology. He's now building into what he just talked about in chapter one to chapter 12, that even God can raise the dead, which I believe he did to Paul when he was caught up in the third heaven. Now, having said all that, then we'll just look at this term messenger.

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Now, one thing we have to understand is oftentimes the word angelos which we get, the word that's derived angel. It appears 175 times in the New Testament. Now, obviously it's primarily in reference to angels, but there are different kinds of angels. Angels is not what describes or gives us insight into what an angel is. There are cherubs that are not referred to as angels. There are seraphim cherubims, there's archangels. So angels is just a very loose term that just means messenger.

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Okay, now we do know what's know. What is not just similar but is also true of other forms of spiritual entities or heavenly spirits is that they're incorporeal, and so that is true here with this term angelos. But get this it's also referring to demons. Now, demons, daemon, is not something that is commonly used when referring to what we refer to as demons. They're mainly referred to as evil spirits or unclean spirits. So this term here, an angel of Satan this meaning is clear that Paul understood that his suffering was caused by a demon and he says specifically it was sent from Satan. Isn't that interesting? Because then he uses an intriguing term to describe its purpose for him to buffet or harass me. We know that's not what God does to his people. God doesn doesn't buffet us, god doesn't harass us. So this came from Satan. So I do believe Satan understands something significant happened to Paul. He knows that Paul obviously is clearly the apostle that God is using in amazing ways.

Speaker 1:

But remember, in Job 1 if in fact you want to place Satan there before the sons of God, which I do believe he was at least of anything loosely affiliated came from the sons of God. And this divine counsel in heaven that we see, that's mentioned in Job, chapter 38, verses 4 through 7, also Psalm 82, deuteronomy 32. But these mighty angelic beings that were there before creation because we see them there rejoicing, we see that God sits in his counsel, and that's what angels are, if you want to just again use the general term these spirit beings are messengers. They're being used by God to accomplish his purposes. He doesn't need them because he lacks something. God chooses to give responsibility to his creation because that's his love. Okay, and so Satan, after the fall, at some point he has access, notice, in the presence of the divine council still, and they start talking about Job.

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Well, I do believe that when Paul was caught up in heaven and he came back, that that sent some shockwaves, if you will, in the spiritual realm to Satan. And so notice he says to you, know, to prevent me from being conceited. Now, obviously that's something that God cares about. He doesn't want us to be boastful and walking in the flesh and taking all the credit. So God, like with Job, allows this because in his weakness he is strong. So even though then Satan tried to use us to destroy Paul, it doesn't work because Paul's faith is in the Lord.

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Now, in verse eight, three times I pleaded with the Lord to remove this, to relieve him of this thorn. So when you see what Paul's doing here and you understand that this thorn given to Paul was so intense that obviously he was begging God to remove it three times. Now in the terminology here it's very unclear whether Paul prayed three times. And you're kind of factoring in as we look at Matthew, chapter 26, 36 through 46, where Jesus prayed three times in the garden of Gethsemane for the cup to pass over him. We don't know if that maybe that's the significance there or possibly it's repetitive, because how many times when there's something in your life, in one given day I could pray 20 times for God to remove something right. So you're thinking how long did this go on? And you're saying that Paul only remembers praying for it three times.

Speaker 1:

He's not a man of prayer. That's not the point here. That's not what he's stressing here. He's pointing out that he recognizes that he's incapable in his own strength to move forward in life, thinking as he's pleading with God to remove it. But like Jesus, yes, but nevertheless, you know better than me, and so it is possible that Paul was pleading for God to heal him, maybe of his vision, these infirmities, to prevent these people who are harassing him.

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If you go back to Galatians, chapter four, 12 through 16, this does give us some type of insight, where Paul was discussing his poor eyesight, remember, and how it challenged him and it caused a lot of issues. In fact, even right now, I had an eye exam and I got I'm getting old guys, I got on my lower lenses now progressives, and so I'm it's. It caused a severe headache when I was adjusting to them recently and I had to cancel a bunch of stuff to kind of recover. And so then, as I was reading this, I was thinking, oh, yeah, paul, I could relate to you. No, not really. I was just like, oh, I can see, even just you know in a day how something that really brought me down physically.

Speaker 1:

Could you imagine what Paul went through as he expressed the struggles that he was going through when he says, brothers, I entreat, you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. He says you did me no wrong. You know, it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me. So notice, this was coming. It was becoming problematic for Paul, because it was affecting the way he was ministering to people, and if you've ever been around somebody who God is using and there's a physical ailment or there's some type of infirmity, and yet they're using that, they're allowing God to use that in his grace to preach the gospel, to even break us, and there's like this connection, or sympathy, or like man, how are you able to move forward? That's because of God. He says you guys are even engouched on my, your own eyes to. If you could give them to me to help me.

Speaker 1:

So I do believe, though, the thorn of flesh is far more than just his physical eyesight. So now let's go back to verse nine, though, because this is powerful, because he says but this is what Jesus said to him God hears his prayers, he hears his pleas, and I want you guys to understand that you could be pleading with God right now. Keep doing it. Lay it before him. He hears you. If you're walking before him and you're struggling, he hears you.

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Now he may not respond the way that you and I, in our flesh, want him to. You may think he's taking too long or he doesn't care. But notice, I love this because as he pleads for God to take this away, god doesn't. But again, the answer far outweighs his response. And this is something that we can't miss, because you oftentimes think if we were given our way, would it have been better? Well, if it's our father's will, of course not. So notice, paul learns more about the father's will in the midst of this thorn in the flesh given by a messenger of Satan. Then he would have had God not allowed this to happen or taken away early from him, whatever again, the thorn in the flesh was. But Jesus says to him my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness, so to prevent him from being conceited. What did he need to learn? Grace, whose grace? God's grace, and it's sufficient. And this is.

Speaker 1:

If you go back now to the previous chapters, and over and over again, you'll see in chapter two and chapter four. This is what Paul was saying and he says, therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses. And what he's saying is notice, it's in the plural form and this is why, going back to what I said earlier, the thorn in the flesh sounds like it's just a singular thing. But I believe that the thorn of flesh was expansive, was affecting mentally, spiritually, relationally, physically Paul. But he will boast in those weaknesses plural so that the power of Christ may rest upon him. Meaning God, you actually are answering my prayers and you are delivering me from this. Meaning it's not taking my life, it may be hindering me, but I have to depend on you more. So I pray that truth over your life, as I believe for my own life that my weaknesses are not stronger than God's power. In my life and this is what Paul does he transitions from being in heaven to experiencing hellish conditions immediately after his most glorious experience, and that oftentimes happens in our lives. We can't explain it, but what we can't miss is that God answers prayer, and sometimes God answers it by not answering our prayer. But the point is is that God did not abandon Paul. Instead, he provides strength amid suffering. He gives him what he needs to get through it, and this humbles Paul and it makes him a better man. It makes him more confident in the calling. It makes him recognize that you know what this weakness does exist, this infirmity does exist, but my strength in the Lord is far more mighty than this.

Speaker 1:

Now, a parallel to Paul's experience is clearly articulated in Jeremiah 9, verses 23 and 24. In that passage, notice it says Thus says the Lord. This is to the prophet Jeremiah Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom. Let not the mighty man boast in his might. Let not the rich man boast in his riches. But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me that I am the Lord who practices steadfast love, justice and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the Lord. Isn't that beautiful, my friends? So, whatever you're going through, if you're suffering which I know many of us are we can find refuge and confidence and strength in God's power that he can get us through this. It may not eliminate the suffering. In fact, some of these infirmities or trials that you're going through may last longer and in some cases I've encountered a lot of Christians where they were given an infirmity and they call that their own thorn in the flesh, and it never goes away. But it's through that not entirely, but it's definitely been used to strengthen them.

Speaker 1:

One of the Bible study commentaries said this God's solution to earthly suffering is not to take away the trials to make earth a paradise. His answer to suffering is to give us more of himself and his all sufficient grace so that we have enough to endure the trials. This response totally changes Paul's perspective. He goes from praying for the removal of the weakness to boasting in the weakness. How do weak people boast? They boast that Jesus is strong enough for anything they face. The surpassing power belongs to him and rests on us. So Paul's suffering mirrors that of Paul as we talked about, who was similarly attacked by Satan but remained dependent on the Lord.

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So, my friend, you may not fully grasp what God is doing, especially if you are facing some type of hardship right now. There's pain in your life, but let me say this to you as your brother in Christ God is allowing this to happen in your life. He has not abandoned you, but he's refining you and I pray that you will come to trust him and be grateful that he is carrying you through the fire and his plan is he's refining you and you come out refined, that you'll be far greater. Your strength in the Lord, because your faith has been refined, will be far greater. To where you can look at the passage in Romans, chapter eight, verses 31 and 39. And you will say this with grace.

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What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, with him, graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn Christ. Jesus is the one who died, more than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who, indeed, is interceding for us. And it says who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword.

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Then it goes on from there. But see, that's the thing Nothing, my friends. There's no power, no height, no depth, nor anything that will separate you from the love of Christ. And that's what Paul is saying here height, nor depth, nor anything that will separate you from the love of Christ. And that's what Paul is saying here. So, in closing, when he says here in verse 10, for the sake of Christ, then I am content with weakness. Notice this, for the sake of Christ.

Speaker 1:

And he mentions all these things, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamities, which again goes back to what I believe he is speaking about with a thorn in the flesh. And they're in plural form form, and it was being heightened in his, in his life. So instead of it getting better, it got worse, especially coming back from heaven, which would have caused him to be like slipping deep in depression, saying no, thank you, then I don't want anything, anything like this to ever happen to me again. And I believe this verse crystallizes Paul's argument going back to chapter 10. And then we're, as we get into chapter 13, because the key to Paul sharing his near-death experience was for no other reason than to express that his life is for the sake of Christ. So, no matter what Paul had faced, what he endured, he was willing to go through it for the furtherance of the gospel.

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My friends, are you and I willing to do the same? Jesus said in Matthew, chapter 5, 10 through 12, blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you. When others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you, falsely on my account, rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven. And so they persecuted the prophets who were also before you.

Speaker 1:

So, my friends, as we close, and when the question was asked, you know what is that thorn of the flesh? Hopefully it gives you some insight of what Paul was going through and as you kind of piece these different passages together, you know you're like man, lord, you really used Paul in a mighty way because he really went through a lot and he learned that in those sufferings, in those trials, in that thorn of the flesh, I think that really affected him, that was magnified and Paul was just being attacked demonically. God allowed it, god protected him and through that we'll see as we get into the book of Romans gave this man the ability to go deeper in his love for Christ and the revelations that he had through the power of the Holy Spirit that continue to be used to spread the gospel. I pray that for your life. So, whatever you're going through, trust the Lord. He's refining you and he wants to use you and use what you're going through as a testimony for other people to observe and say there's something that that person has that is amazing, that is beyond the physical and my friends, that's when you can tell them it's my faith in Jesus Christ. So I pray that's been a blessing to you guys.

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If you have any prayer requests or you have any questions, make sure that you know that you can contact us. We'd love to hear from you. You can go to our website, standstrongministriesorg. You can click on the contact button there. There's also resources there articles, videos, books that I've written to help you guys continue to stand strong in your faith through wise thinking and bold living, and know that we put this podcast out there to help Christians stand strong in God's word, that we are not biblically illiterate, but rather we are being transformed by the infallible word of God, and so I encourage you guys leave us a review, share this with your friends and the community of people that God has used you to impact, so we can continue together, collectively or globally, reach more people to be in God's word. So thank you, guys, for listening. Till next time. Keep standing strong in the word of God.